Happy fish Argument 濠梁之辯

 秋水 - 13:

莊子與惠子遊於濠梁之上。莊子曰：「儵魚出遊從容，是魚樂也。」惠子曰：「子非魚，安知魚之樂？」莊子曰：「子非我，安知我不知魚之樂？」惠子曰：「我非子，固不知子矣；子固非魚也，子之不知魚之樂全矣。」莊子曰：「請循其本。子曰『汝安知魚樂』云者，既已知吾知之而問我，我知之濠上也。」

The Floods of Autumn - paragraph 13

Zhuangzi and Huizi were walking on the bridge over the Hao creek, when Zhuangzi said, 'These thryssas come out, and play about at their ease - that is the happiness of fishes.' 

Huizi: You are not a fish; how do you know what constitutes the happiness of fishes?

Zhuangzi: You are not I. How do you know that I do not know what constitutes the happiness of fishes?

Huizi: I am not you; therefore I cannot know you (fully); but you are not a fish, therefore you cannot know what constitutes the happiness of fishes.  The argument is complete.

Zhuangzi: Let us keep to your original question. You said to me, 'How do you know what constitutes the happiness of fishes?' I knew then that you knew that I knew it, and yet you put your question to me - well, I know it over the Hao creek.

• What do you think about the story?  
• Are Zhuangzi and Huizi talking about the same type of knowing?  
• Is Huizi's argument valid?  
• Is Zhuangzi's argument valid?  
• Can Zhuangzi know if fishes are happy?  
• What else may the story be talking about - friendship, being at ease, happiness?

The latter part of the Youtube video below discusses the 'Happy Fish Argument':

Zhuangzi "Autumn Floods" and "Happy Fish Argument" @ Asian Philosophies

https://youtu.be/A49xO5-Qg6s

Reference:

1. 《秋水 - The Floods of Autumn》https://ctext.org/zhuangzi/floods-of-autumn